Summer Talkback Series - Isaac Adams on The Gospel & Race
Download MP3I have been looking forward to tonight for a long time, ever since I heard Isaac share, on the gospel and race last February. If you don't know Isaac Adams, he is the lead pastor at Iron City Church here in Birmingham where he serves as the primary preacher and he oversees the church staff and his services. And he and his wife, Megan, they've got 3 wonderful kids. They moved here, just a, what, year and a half?
Speaker 2:Yeah. 2 years.
Joel Brooks:Something like that. Year and a half, 2 years ago from Washington DC. He went to UNC, got his MDiv from Southern Seminary, served for Together for the Gospel, the Cross Conference. He served briefly overseas with the IMB, and he served for a while as one of the staff pastors at Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington DC. A church I don't know if you are familiar with, but a church that has certainly shaped the way that we, at least, think about membership and the way that we think about our core classes and a number of other things.
Joel Brooks:Just a great, deeply influential church. Isaac is also the founder of United We Pray, a ministry devoted to helping Christians pray and think about racial strife. And he's also the author of a few books, including this book, Talking About Race, Gospel Hope for Hard Conversations. And I don't know about you, but over the last 5 or 6 years, I read a great number of works about how christians ought to think about race and injustice. And I don't know that I could more highly recommend this book.
Joel Brooks:There are works that do a great job of lamenting what is happening in the world, and there are books that do a great job of helping us think biblically or think critically about what is going on in society today. But Isaac's book, it's so pastoral. It's so deeply caring. It balances better than any other book I've come across, the desire to see the Lord redeem and restore as he only can as only he can, with a clear eyed reality of the way the world actually operates. So I hope that you will pick this up.
Joel Brooks:I hope that you will benefit as much from hearing Isaac teach tonight as I have benefited learning from him. And while I benefited from learning from him, that night and through this book, I am especially grateful for this brother and his deep joy. I think that's one of the first things that you will notice when you hear him teach, That he deeply loves the Lord. He deeply loves God's people. And he deeply loves God's, What did I say?
Joel Brooks:Lord, word, church. That's where I was going. Those three things and just exudes a deep delight in who God is and a desire for you to know him as well. Come pray for our time together and to pray for Isaac. So if y'all give it up for Isaac.
Speaker 3:Father, we thank you for this evening. It is so good to look out and see so many familiar faces. I thank you for Iron City, the work you're doing there, for the many relationships that, we share between our churches. You know, I thank you for their partnership and ministry in this city and the unique and wonderful way that you are using them to reach so many people. I pray for Isaac tonight that you would fill him with your spirit and your wisdom.
Speaker 3:Lord, that he might share what you have put in his heart. So Lord, give us ears to hear, a mind that understands, a heart that's willing to listen. We pray this in the name of Jesus. Amen.
Speaker 2:Amen. Amen. Thank you, brother.
Speaker 4:Thank you. God bless
Speaker 2:Four quick things before we begin. Number 1, I just wanna applaud, United We Pray again, if I can, a ministry, we have over at Iron City Church now devoted to helping Christians pray and think about racial issues. So if you'd like to know more about United We Pray, I'd love to talk to you afterward. 2nd, this is just a heads up, this tech this talk is not an exposition of a certain text in scripture. So while I started United We Pray and give time to it, 1st and foremost, I am a pastor and a preacher.
Speaker 2:And every time I'm in front of God's people or a crowd this size, I feel compelled to share the good news about a good God who loves and saves bad people through the death and resurrection of his son who died in the place of sinners, that if we turn from our sins and trust in him, we may receive eternal life. Amen? Amen. Alright. So we're we're talking back.
Speaker 2:Right? This talk back series. I'm gonna say Jesus died and rose for sinners. Y'all are gonna say amen. Okay?
Speaker 2:Jesus died and rose for sinners. Amen? Amen. Amen. Amen.
Speaker 2:Friends, we never outgrow our need for the gospel, and this talk is rooted in the gospel. So if you're here, and especially if you're not a Christian, do not leave tonight without talking to someone about what that good news means for you. Number 3. I have a free copy of that book Matt was talking about talking about race to the first person who raises their hand. Alright.
Speaker 2:My man brought me water earlier, so then here we go. I still don't know your name, but we'd be friends. And in fact, I have lots of free copies of the book that I will, share afterward will be out there somewhere. So come see me if you want a free copy of the book. Number 4.
Speaker 2:Let's pray again to begin our time together. Let's pray. Father, we can talk and talk back tonight, but if you don't help us, we will not make any progress. And father, as we consider this huge problem, this mountain of racial strife and what we might do about it,
Speaker 5:father, we confess we don't know what to do,
Speaker 2:but our eyes are on you. So we come to you not as adults who have it all figured out, but as your children who need wisdom and who believe your promise that you are happy to give it to those who ask. And so we ask in Jesus name, Amen. Grace and peace, sisters and brothers. It's good to be here with y'all this evening.
Speaker 2:Bring you greetings from Iron City Church, and I wanna thank you for having me. Your pastor, Matt, has been a dear friend to me. He's such a dear friend that he invited me to speak on the most controversial topic known to man. Such a generous man you are, Matt. Seriously though, Redeemer Church family, I really am grateful for your pastors, for Matt, for Joel.
Speaker 2:They have been friends. They've been a listening ear. They've been cheerleaders rooting for me, and they've been tour guides. And I've needed a guide to the city of Birmingham, Alabama, because this is a place I never thought I would live. And neither did my mother.
Speaker 5:You see, I'm new to Birmingham.
Speaker 2:It was about a year and a half ago, that I was installed as the lead pastor of Iron City Church. So I'm new to Birmingham. I'm not new unfortunately to racial strife, to ethnic conflict and neither is my mother who was raised as a resident of Washington DC where she raised me, and mom is the godliest woman I know. Very dignified, very wise, very meek. I remember when I first began talking to, Iron City, about being their pastor.
Speaker 2:I went to tell my mom about it. She knew my pastoral aspirations, and I said, mom, I think I found a church. And she said, that's great. That's wonderful. And I said, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's in Birmingham. And my mom, again, who is very meek, recoiled in horror. She said, oh, Isaac. I told the Lord I would never step foot in that city after what they did to those 4 little girls. My mom was old enough to be one of those girls.
Speaker 2:And so with that with with that 1963 16th Street Baptist Church Birmingham bombing still so fresh in her mind, she let me know that she would never visit me here. I remember texting a mentor of mine, a pastor named Mark Deaver, at Capital Baptist Church, where Matt was just talking about. He knew I was going to tell mom about Birmingham. I text him right after mom said she'd never visit, and I told Mark, we're off to a great start over here. And he said, often, Nineveh, you go.
Speaker 2:My mom did text me later that night, the day I told her about Birmingham, and she said, I love you. I'll support you wherever you go, and be sure to leave my grandchildren here when you leave. She said that last part closer, to when it was time for me to leave. Sisters and brothers, mom said she'd never visit Birmingham, and sadly, she spoke more accurately than she knew. Because March of last year, just 3 months into my time here, my mom, who was in good health,
Speaker 5:my mom who had made plans to
Speaker 2:come visit me and my
Speaker 5:family, she unexpectedly died.
Speaker 2:She went home to be with the Lord. She had spoken about never stepping foot in Birmingham in that city and though she didn't know it, it was indeed the Lord's will for her to step foot in a better city. A heavenly one. One prepared for her by God. Hebrews 11 16 would say, mom is in that city now.
Speaker 2:But here we are, still in our pilgrimage there, traveling through a world, a nation, a city, marked and marred by so much racial and ethnic division, what can we do about that? Friends, tonight, I'm gonna try to be real practical and answer the question, what can we, what can you, a Christian who has been saved by the power of the gospel message, which is the power of God for salvation, Romans 116. What can you do now to combat racism, to do justice, to love mercy, to work against division in your church, and serve your neighbors outside your church regarding this issue of ethnic unity and strife? What can you do? This is a question I try to answer squarely
Speaker 5:in my book, Talking About Race.
Speaker 2:In the book, the larger question I'm asking and trying to answer is, why is it so hard for Christians in America to talk about race with each other? Why is it so hard for Christians in America to talk about race with each other? And I strive to answer that question by telling a story because stories are powerful. Stories stick. Now just ask Nathan the prophet and David the king.
Speaker 2:Right? 2nd Samuel 12. Nathan tells David a story, and David gets all worked up, all invested before he even realizes it's about him. Nathan's like, dude, you're the bad guy. Stories are powerful.
Speaker 2:That's why a book, I think, like, Isabel Wilkerson's The Warmth of Other Suns is so forceful in the history
Speaker 5:it recounts, because she tells it through the lens of story.
Speaker 2:And so, in talking about race, I tell a fictional account about a racial tragedy. A racial tragedy. Often in the race conversation, we don't define our terms, but we're often using the same words with different dictionaries. And so often, the race conversation feels like we are talking in babble. Like, we're trying to build something.
Speaker 2:Babble. Genesis 11. Maybe even something good, we're trying to build. Like the unity of our church, yet we are speaking different languages, talking past one another. So let me define what I mean by racial tragedy.
Speaker 2:By racial tragedy. I mean, an event that evokes past or present ethnic tensions, and that is worthy of lament, regardless of where you stand on these issues. A racial tragedy is an event that evokes past or present ethnic tensions, and that is worthy of lament regardless of where you stand on these issues. And the specific tragedy I focus on, in my writing, is the shooting of an unarmed black man, an unarmed image bearer. And I illustrate how 5 different characters respond to this tragedy.
Speaker 2:They're all part of the same church. These characters include a white politically conservative brother who feels like he puts his foot in his mouth every time he speaks about race. And then there's a black brother who is one of few minor few minorities in his predominantly white church. You have an Asian sister, a third character, who appreciates the race conversation, but feels like it's often only limited to issues between blacks and whites. She's saying, hey.
Speaker 2:I'm cool with the conversation, but could we expand it a bit? Is there room for me at the table? 4th, you have a white sister who is very passionate about these issues. Some might call her woke and seems ready to tear down every institution, including her church, because like all the other institutions, it appears to be a bastion of white supremacy. And finally, you have number 5, their pastor.
Speaker 2:The pastor over all these folks who is just trying to hold his church together. And Matt and Joel said, amen. Amen. And so I wrote a story. A parable, really, about a fictional racial tragedy as I tried to provide a pastoral war a pastoral word for our racial moment.
Speaker 2:And I try to provide a pastoral word because I fear the race conversation has lots of prophets, but few pastors. And we need look no further than to our toxic, worldly conversations about race, which dishonor our Lord to see the truth of that statement. So, that's the why behind talking about race. And, again, I'll have free copies to give away. After this, the only thing you need to do is sign up for our email list out there.
Speaker 2:Our emails are super edifying. We won't blow up your inbox. Don't worry. They're super edifying. And they'll help you know about our content, and they'll help keep this issue in front of your face.
Speaker 2:Anyway, that's why I wrote Talking About Race. But talking about race is not written simply for talking sake. As if talking will fix everything. Friends, the scriptures call us to love, not in word or in speech, but in actions and in truth. 1st John 318.
Speaker 2:And so, I hope thinking about the difficulty of our present day racial discourse would lead us to do more justice, to love more mercy, to walk more humbly with our God. And sadly, I'm confident we'll have plenty of opportunity to do so, because racial tragedies aren't going away. The next viral video of a racial tragedy, won't be the first of its kind. And unfortunately, until the Lord returns, I fear it won't be the last. Friends, don't you remember when Ahmaud Arbery's case was brought before the nation, and it wasn't long after that until George Floyd's was as well.
Speaker 2:You remember when we learned about these tragedies, basically, back to back. It was like a 1, 2 punch for our nation. And of course, on one level, tragedies like these, and the inevitability of them, aren't surprising. As Christians, we know something is wrong in this fallen order. As Christians, we have a category for sin and humans doing really terrible and unjust things.
Speaker 2:And beyond that, as Christians, we have a hope of sin ending. And so we know racial strife has an expiration date. Until then, however, beloved, what can you do? It's a good question. Dear sisters and brothers who want to love their neighbors who are asking it, what can you do?
Speaker 2:Or what can I do? The word can in the question is crucial. In this talk, I'm not saying, thou must do such and such. And this is a really important caveat. In this talk, I'm not seeking to bind anyone's conscience to a specific course of action.
Speaker 2:As a pastor, I don't go beyond scripture, in telling my people what they must do. Right? There's a difference between the church gathered and the church scattered. So, while maybe you should do things in your own individual calling and capacity, that doesn't mean your whole church collectively should do them. And this might be why your pastor doesn't get up on Sunday and say, hey, church.
Speaker 2:In light of this racial injustice, we're all going to meet in the parking lot of Big Spoon, and we're gonna march, and we're gonna protest down 4th Avenue. That said, what I found is that while folks appreciate their conscience not being wrongly bound, they
Speaker 5:are often still left wondering
Speaker 2:what positively they can do. Like, okay. I get it. You're not saying I have to do this, but I just love some handlebars, some starting place. Where where can I begin?
Speaker 2:As a Christian trying to respond faithfully in light of ethnic divisions and strife, what can I do? And I wanna dignify this question, because sometimes folks will give people a hard time for asking, what can I do? Like, don't ask me. That's white privilege. You should figure it out.
Speaker 2:But, beloved, Christians want to do good works. Hebrews 1024. We gather in our churches to stir one another up to love and good works. Romans 7:4 says, we've been saved to bear fruit. Titus 2:14 says, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm confident the people in this room know that while we are not saved by good works, we are saved for good works. So if you're asking yourself, what can I do? Especially, when racial tragedy strikes. Let's say there's been shocking event in the news. What can you do?
Speaker 2:Let me give you 26 suggestions. The best part is you think I'm joking. Here we go. Number 1, pray. By yourself, with other saints, pray for structural change, Pray for individual change.
Speaker 2:Pray to have the same moral clarity today that you have on past evils like slavery. That's one of the reasons going about the work of racial justice is so hard. Things aren't quite as clear as a whites only sign above a drinking fountain. So, pray for clarity. Friends, we are not gonna get this clarity in our own strength.
Speaker 2:I've read tons about race, and things can still be unclear. We need divine help. Pray for clarity. Pray for the oppressed. Pray for the oppressor.
Speaker 2:Pray for your enemies, whomever you perceive them to be. However you pray, whatever you pray, just pray. Weep. Howl. Lament.
Speaker 2:Be angry and do not sin. Put Jehoshaphat's prayer on your lips. We don't know what to do, but our eyes are on you. 2nd Chronicles 2012. Number 2.
Speaker 2:Discern whether it's wise for you to watch the tragedy. Discern whether it's wise for you to watch the tragedy. I make this point mostly with minorities of mine. My guess is that if you're hearing this, especially in the wake of a racial tragedy, you've already seen a viral video or whatever its equivalent would be. But consider if watching future videos of tragedies is wise for you.
Speaker 2:Now, you may feel like you need to watch or rewatch a video, but that's not necessarily true. Doing so may cause you unnecessary depression. So exercise your freedom in Christ. You may be emotionally or spiritually tapped. Not everyone is equally equipped to dive into each tragedy.
Speaker 2:Pray for wisdom and ask for counsel as to whether watching a tragedy would be good for you. Beloved, we don't wanna ignore suffering, but neither do we want to immerse our hearts in it. Proverbs 423 tells us to guard our hearts. So discern whether it's wise for you to watch the tragedy. Then number 3, pray some more.
Speaker 2:Number 4, study what happened. If you do decide to look further into a tragedy, read the most credible sources you can on the matter. Don't tweet before you seek information. And I've been guilty of this. Friends, take your time researching what happened.
Speaker 2:Study what happened. There's no rush. Then number 5, pray some more. Number 6, examine yourself. Examine yourself and repent if necessary.
Speaker 2:One kind of prayer is especially helpful, confession. So see if there is any false sway, any hatred, any prejudice within you, and confess that to the Lord. Ask the Lord to forgive your hidden faults, your unintentional sin. Psalm 19 verse 12 and Psalm 90 verse 8 speak of hidden faults and secret sins. Friends, the psalmist posture is not one of self justifying.
Speaker 2:He he's not sitting there saying, God, I don't have a racist bone in my body. Or look how many of my friends are minorities. No. Declare me innocent of hidden faults. The psalmist prays.
Speaker 2:I fear sometimes we treat racism as the one sin that had an expiration date. So anger, greed, fear, lust, all of these. Yeah. We're like, yeah. We'll deal with that till heaven.
Speaker 2:But racism's gone. Examine yourself and repent if necessary. And then number 7, pray some more.
Speaker 5:Do you see every other one as prayer? Pray some more.
Speaker 2:Number 8, educate yourself. Educate yourself on the topic of race. Before seeking what you can do, study
Speaker 5:what has been done,
Speaker 2:which is to say, do some homework on how we got to this present racial moment. Studying the past of our moment will help you discern this present moment. So friends, read history. Birmingham. Birmingham is pregnant with racial history.
Speaker 2:If you're wondering what books you can be reading about race more generally and talking about race, I have a whole chart of suggestions of good resources you can read. And one bonus about books is they are like conversation partners, and they're really nice conversation partners. A book will put up with all your silly questions. So if you don't have, let's say, a lot of black friends, you can at least have a conversation with Frederick Douglass by reading his narrative of life of a slave. Beloved, educate yourself on the topic of race.
Speaker 2:And then number 9, pray some more. Number 10, Be okay with not being able to fix everything. Be okay with not being able to fix everything. Too often when we ask, what can I do? We're essentially asking, how can I fix it?
Speaker 2:Sometimes, however, the point isn't to fix something, but to faithfully endure it as we groan along with the rest of creation for groaning is inescapable until glory. One ugly fact of a fallen world is this. Not everything can be fixed. The book of Ecclesiastes makes this really clear. Ecclesiastes 114, I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold all is vanity and is striving after the wind.
Speaker 2:What is crooked cannot be made straight. What is lacking cannot be counted. Friends, not everything can be fixed. Nevertheless, we can rest in this truth. Our job our job is not to completely eradicate the world of racism, it is to faithfully follow the one who will.
Speaker 2:And vengeance and perfect justice belong to him. He will judge fully and finally, and there will be no miscarriage of justice with his gavel. You either do agree with me about this or you will. Of course, I'm not saying we shouldn't seek temporal justice now, however imperfect. We should seek temporal justice.
Speaker 5:But but perfect justice will come.
Speaker 2:What did the apostle Peter write? Sisters and brothers, the Lord is not slow to fulfill his promises. As some count so slowness. Or as they say in the black church, God may not come when you want him to, but he's always on time. In light of racial tragedies, remember, you're not God.
Speaker 2:So be okay with not being able to fix everything. And then number 11.
Speaker 4:Praise the Lord.
Speaker 2:Number 12. Think about what you can do in your specific calling in life. Think about what you can do in your specific calling in life. Are you a pastor? Matt?
Speaker 2:Joel? Elders of RCC? What does all that we've talked about mean for how you lead your congregations? Are you a homemaker? How might you teach your kids?
Speaker 2:Parents, in talking about race, there's a section about how you can talk to your kids specifically about race, from some wise parents whose kids are a lot older than my own. All of us, the point is, have different roles, different networks, and we'll have to think about how to use them. Because friends, racism is a monster with many heads, and there are many faithful ways to go after it. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't have to be this one thing.
Speaker 2:It might be that for her, it might be this for him.
Speaker 5:That's okay. Not all of us have the same
Speaker 4:rule,
Speaker 2:and that's okay. Number 13. Number 14. Regardless of how you feel about a racial tragedy, reach out to a brother or sister who may be grieving. Regardless of how you feel about a racial tragedy, reach out to a brother or sister who may be grieving.
Speaker 2:This step could get messy. And why wouldn't it? Because after all, love is messy. That said, I think this step is important. Before we elaborate on it, I wanna clarify that the lar the larger point behind this step.
Speaker 2:The point isn't to contact someone for the sake of contacting them. I say this especially for white sisters and brothers who may be wondering, when a racial tragedy strikes, should I contact that one random friend I haven't spoken to since the 4th grade? Maybe, but probably not. But, love, but the point isn't to check a box, say, okay, I've contacted someone, and then move on in life. Rather, the point is to help foster an environment, especially in our churches where tenderness and sympathy on racial matters is normalized, expected, and valued.
Speaker 2:Checking in with with folks you know and love is a wonderful way to build that kind of environment. For when one part of the body suffers, all suffer. The bible says in 1st Corinthians 12. A profound reality, when one part suffers, all suffer. Now, when you reach out to folks, recognize that not everyone will want to be contacted or will have the same opinion.
Speaker 2:When you reach out, don't demand a response. When you reach out, don't ask the person what you can do, or ask them to explain all of what's going on to you. So keep in mind that general questions like, hey, how are you doing with this? While so well intended, that kind of general question may put someone, may put pressure on someone to describe the indescribable. Okay.
Speaker 2:This point is about reaching out to people, and so far I've told you how not to reach out
Speaker 4:to them. So let me state the matter positively.
Speaker 2:When 6 Asian women were shot in Atlanta in March 2021, I checked in with some Asian sisters and brothers, I knew at my church in DC. That's where I was at the time, saying this. That's what I said. I don't know how these shootings hit you,
Speaker 5:and you don't have to tell me or even respond, but I love you. I'm praying, and I'm here if you wanna talk. No pressure.
Speaker 2:And friends, I share this not to boast, but to provide an example. And you know what? My Asian sisters and brothers blessed me with powerful conversations. So you'll notice this point about reaching out to folks isn't the first action step on this list. That's intentional.
Speaker 5:It's not because
Speaker 2:I'm trying to add another rule to a conversation that has so much law and so little grace. It's not because I expect imperfect people to speak perfectly. It's because taking some of the other action steps we just talked about, you know, 1 through 13, that will help you before you ask your question when you reach out to people. That will help you ask your question in a more informed, loving way. Number 15.
Speaker 2:Believe. Number 16. Believe. Believe. When a minority tells you about their experience or, frankly, when someone in the majority tells you about their experience, believe them.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying you have to affirm everything they're saying,
Speaker 5:or that you have to swallow it wholesale or change
Speaker 2:your world view. I'm simply saying I'm simply saying, give people the benefit of the doubt. I mean, husbands, don't we know what it's like for our wives to have a hard day, and they come home telling us about it? And we're like, did that really happen? Don't we know how well that goes typically?
Speaker 2:I'm not the only husband in this room who's done that. Right? Don't put the person suffering on trial and make them justify their pain, which does nothing but double it. Believe them. Love believes all things.
Speaker 2:Number 17. Pray some more. Number 18. Keep listening. Keep listening.
Speaker 2:It's easy to be like Job's friends during tragedies. One way to keep from being like them, running your mouth, is to close your mouth. You wanna sin less, speak less. Proverbs 10/19, when words are many, transgression is not lacking. Beloved, our world puts the pressure on you to say something.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you've seen the signs, silence is violence, But while the Bible says, positively, we should speak for those who can't speak for themselves, Proverbs 3 18. The Bible also says, there is a time to refrain from speaking, Ecclesiastes 37. So don't give into the world's pressure to always run your mouth. Or as my late mother would often tell me, child, you don't have to say everything you know. I know there's some people who's gonna use that this week.
Speaker 2:So you don't have to say everything you know. Friends, just because you tweet something just because you tweet something, it doesn't mean you care. And just because you don't tweet something, doesn't mean you don't care.
Speaker 5:Live before God is your audience. No one else, number 19.
Speaker 2:Number 20. Number 20. Support those already doing something. Support those already doing something. Instead of reinventing the wheel, as we're prone to do, when asking, what can I do?
Speaker 2:What can I start? See who is already doing something. How How can you get behind their efforts? Can you support them financially? Can you support them in prayer?
Speaker 2:And this point helps us to see that we're not in this battle against racism alone. We not we need not only ask, what can I do, but what can we do? Number 21. Number 22. Get involved locally.
Speaker 2:Get involved locally. One effect of social media is that it makes us want to be omnipresent. But there are there re are there flesh and blood people suffering around you whom you can get to know? Whom you can serve regularly? Is there a neighborhood you're tempted to walk or drive by that you could somehow love?
Speaker 2:Is there a church in that neighborhood you can encourage or support? Is there a local high school or crisis pregnancy center you can help? Is there a YMCA here in Birmingham you can get involved in? Friends, where are you serving in Birmingham? Well, let's not be those who are known digitally, but not locally.
Speaker 2:I fear in an age of the selfie, people on Instagram might think we do acts of justice and mercy, but do our neighbors think that? Do they receive that from us? Beloved, I find that people who are serving locally, their consciences are often not troubled by what they can be doing. So get involved locally. Then number 23.
Speaker 4:Rest in. Number 24.
Speaker 2:Remember. Remember. Remember is such an important word in the bible. Remember, rest in, and keep sharing the gospel. Remember, rest in, and keep sharing the gospel.
Speaker 2:Christian, you have something so many people don't. Hope in Christ. We want this world to be as good as it can be. But we know that even if it was, there is still a better world coming. One that lasts forever.
Speaker 2:One ruled by a king who was crucified and was raised to save his people. Share that hope. Number 25. Number 26. Commit.
Speaker 2:Commit to repeating some combination of the steps listed
Speaker 5:above where
Speaker 2:when there's not a high profile racial tragedy in the news. So friends, we don't wanna be merely reactive to problems, but to proactively cut them off. And with that, you have it, friends. 26 steps. They're not rocket science, but I hope they serve you and your family and your neighbors, so that when the next racial tragedy happens, it won't catch you flat footed.
Speaker 2:And, sisters and brothers, I just want to say, I know I've been talking about racial tragedies as specific events, but really the whole entire state of affairs, of ethnic and race relations race relations is its own tragedy.
Speaker 4:I want to be clear. There's been a ton of progress. Praise God. I think we robbed God of glory if we don't recognize progress.
Speaker 2:I think we robbed God of glory if we don't recognize progress. I think we think we rob God of glory if we don't recognize progress.
Speaker 5:But that said, part of what
Speaker 2:makes racism so sinister is that it and its effects are so subtle. So I often like in Jim Crow Jim Crow laws to lit matches. Someone can say, hey, what racism are you talking about today? Those laws are off the books. The matches have been blown out.
Speaker 2:And to that, I say, sure. The match has been blown out, but the house is still on fire. And what's haunting is that maybe we're so used to seeing that house on fire that we don't even notice.
Speaker 5:I've only lived here in segregated Birmingham for so long, but I don't have to drive far west
Speaker 2:or far north
Speaker 5:to know that the house is still on fire.
Speaker 2:To know that the damage is not done. It's compounding. It's rolling. God help us. And I mean that as a prayer.
Speaker 2:Friends, on some level, I'm happy to answer questions after this. I hope I have left time for that. But typically, when I give this talk afterward, I usually just lead a time of prayer. Because it's clear that the work of racial justice is gonna take time and energy. 2 things we have so little of, which means the work of racial justice will also take sacrifice and commitment.
Speaker 2:You'll look you'll likely look foolish as you try to pursue this work. You'll likely get discouraged, which is why most of all, we need God's grace as we pursue this work. And how do we get that? How can we get that grace? The answer is so simple.
Speaker 2:We ask. We ask. James 1 5. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask. Beloved, the longer I study issues of race, the more I see the depth of the problem, the complexity of the problem, the size of the problem.
Speaker 2:So in Birmingham, the problem of race and racism isn't a foothill. It's its own mountain. It feels like the size of Everest. But what did Jesus command us to do if we wanted to see mountains move? Ask me.
Speaker 2:He basically says in Mark 11, and it'll be done for you. I'm preaching Mark 9 this weekend at Iron City,
Speaker 5:and Jesus makes clear the need for prayer.
Speaker 2:He does it really clearly. There's a demon possessed boy. The disciples try to handle it on their own. They can't. They come to Jesus.
Speaker 2:They're like, yo. Why why can't we do this one? And he says, there are some dark forces that can only be driven out by prayer. Friends, if we want to be faithful Christians when it comes to the issue of race and the gospel, we must do more than pray, but we cannot do less. And in the bible, 2nd Corinthians 1 tells us prayer is giving is given as something that should be our first resort, not our last.
Speaker 2:I know, you know, I know so many people. They wanna do great things when it comes to racial reconciliation. I praise God for that. People want to do great things, but they won't even commit to praying about it for a week.
Speaker 5:God help us. So here's what
Speaker 2:we're gonna do before questions.
Speaker 5:I'd like to just give us a couple minutes to pray
Speaker 2:silently where you're at? I don't know where you're at with this talk or how this talk hits you, and I don't need to know. Why don't you just bring your burden, whatever that burden is, bring your burden to the Lord as regards issues of race and the gospel in the city of Birmingham, Alabama. And after you do, I'll lead us in prayer, and then we'll talk back and answer questions. Sound good?
Speaker 2:Alright. Let's take a couple minutes for prayer. Father, as we begin this time, we confess that unless you build the house or labor it in vain. And so we're here to talk and think, even laugh together, but we're here all the money to ask for your help. We're thankful that we could even just have a few moments of silence in such a world world that is so loud and distracting.
Speaker 2:And so father, we're here to ask. We're here to ask for wisdom as it had to be faithful. Lord, we know you don't need our good works, but our neighbor does.
Speaker 5:And father, we we wanna pray big prayers because you're a big god, and you're not stingy. So father, we're here to grab the throne of grace, And if Lord, we will not let go until you bless us. Lord, we pray that you would bring about such healing and unity across ethnic lines and historic lines of division. Lord, we pray you would bring about such healing
Speaker 2:that the only explanation was that you got involved, was that Christ died and made one new man. Lord, if your kingdom, if heaven looks so looks like people from every tribe and tongue, it is no wonder surprised why racism looks so much like hell. Oh, father, we don't want that to be the narrative. We want the narrative to be rewritten. We want John 135 to be so true of the churches in this city.
Speaker 2:By this, the world will know that you are my disciples. By the way, you love one another. Lord, we pray that you would help us to love and some confounding ways to the world. Help us to love in ways that speak of a different world, that speak of a better city, one you have prepared for us. And we ask this in the name of our Lord and our big brother Jesus.
Speaker 2:Amen. Thank you.
Joel Brooks:Isaac, on behalf of all of us, I just wanna say thank you for sharing your pastoral heart with us, for teaching with such clarity from God's word, for sharing your wisdom, and I think most of all, pointing us to the one who alone can heal and restore. So thank you, brother. Alright. As we get started, thank you all so much for your wonderful questions. I'm so sorry that there is no chance that we will get to all of these.
Joel Brooks:But as I like Isaac highlighted to me in our conversation just this minute, I'm gonna try and not do that to you guys. That's what much worse. I do not have a future in sound and AV, in case you guys were wondering. I'm a soft soft skills guy and now I'm really awkward with the sounds that I'm making.
Speaker 2:Is this a preview for how the q and a is gonna go?
Joel Brooks:I'm just trying to make it less awkward for you here in a second by being supremely awkward. Isaac's, the ministry that Isaac founded, United We Pray, has a number of resources that will help guide your conversations about how the gospel affects race. After we wrap up, Isaac will be you wanna do upfront?
Speaker 2:Yeah. We'll we'll do upfront.
Joel Brooks:If you would like to come talk to him further, maybe talk him into giving you a free book. Come find him outside. You should also donate for the book because it's worth it. That's it. You didn't tell me to say that, but I did.
Joel Brooks:Alright. First question. Lord help us and good luck my friend.
Speaker 2:You're not even sitting next to me.
Speaker 4:I mean
Joel Brooks:This is I'm just standing in the corner judging your answers. How does a church who is predominantly white make our home more welcoming for our minority brothers and sisters? How or where do we begin?
Speaker 2:That's a beautiful question. How or where do we begin? Psalm 127. They're talking about the family. The church is a family.
Speaker 2:It's not like a family. By God's grace. And so I honestly think I know this will sound like a broken record. I think you begin by praying for it. I think you pray for it as a church.
Speaker 2:I think that's what we were doing tonight. And just see what happens, and see what you might back into. So I'm just gonna leave it with that simple thing because everyone in this room who has the spirit of God can do that. You can pray about it. And in terms of just big making it more invite I mean, I think this is a great first step.
Speaker 2:It's just like, hey, this is a part of the culture of this church. And brought to the Lord, it's like, okay. This is an environment where I can be. You'll notice and I'll make my answer shorter than this. I promise.
Speaker 2:You'll notice I wasn't like, man, you gotta go hire 16 people or completely change your music. I think churches do that with good intentions, and it just it can get really awkward. It's like you in the corner. It's just like
Joel Brooks:Me anywhere on stage.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Just like, oh, they're trying, but no. Like, they're so just, Austin Suter is a he's a executive director of United We Pray. He couldn't be here tonight.
Speaker 2:He's a member at Iron City. He wrote a great article about him. He's married to a black woman and, he was invited to her family's cookout and
Speaker 4:they asked him to run the grill.
Speaker 2:And they asked him to run the grill. And, and they asked him to run the grill. And so he talked about, like, what do you do in this in this environment? And he said, number 1, be yourself, And number 2, be the most humble version of yourself. So I think when, you know, when folks are coming in, you don't need to be like, oh my gosh, here you are.
Speaker 2:But just be kind and welcoming and be a Christian, is my short answer on that.
Joel Brooks:I really appreciate that deeply encouraging word, Isaac. Number 2, what are some of the top issues that you noticed since moving to Birmingham that you think should be addressed?
Speaker 2:That is that is also a great question. You know, it's interesting because coming from the North, you know, being a Yankee, I had my own stereotypes of this strange land down here in Birmingham. And the only time I've been called the n word to my face was on Capitol Hill in broad daylight by a young by a young man when I was holding my wife's hand and my wife is white, and he said some really terrible things to both of us. Know, you know, political city on the earth, supposed to be super I don't mean liberal, but I mean progressively minded. And I'm not experienced out in Birmingham.
Speaker 2:And I moved here, and I, you know, I I tried to preach I realized I had a friend once who he was he was traveling he was traveling through the Turkish airport and the Turkish airport had just been bombed, like, 2 weeks in advance. And his wife did not want him to fly through that airport. Shocker. And what he told her was, you know, he said, honey, this is the safest airport in the world right now. And in some sense, we're in a city where the bombs have literally gone off and I'm sure plenty of people are pretending it didn't happen or don't know it happened certainly, But there's a recognition the bombs have gone off here.
Speaker 2:And when I'm preaching across, you know, these, you know, Birmingham's is weird. There's Birmingham and then the conglomeration of cities created by white flight or whatever it may be. But when I'm preaching in those in those cities, they're like, hey, we we would like to be helped and we would we know we need that. And so I've been really encouraged by that. And what what I would say is the one thing that I have just been shocked by is how segregated it is.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm like, oh my goodness. It is so seg I don't even I've like like struggled to have categories for it. And so that's what I mean in terms of just crossing lines. Yeah. Anyway.
Joel Brooks:Well, there was a great question ready for a follow-up right there. How would you describe what you see in segregated Birmingham? And how would you see changing that? Or how should a Christian entirely segregated? Churches, schools, clubs, neighborhoods.
Joel Brooks:Any any thoughts or wisdom?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, you can't you can't desegregate a city by yourself or a school by yourself. You know, here you know, let's just be really clear because this is not to shame anyone. It's like, I live in Vestavia. Here I am, you know, black dude with dreadlocks walking down the street in Vestavia.
Speaker 2:I'm like, what am I doing here, Lord? Like, this is not this is just not the plan. But here I am. So, you know, and I have wonderful neighbors. We have a kooky little street.
Speaker 2:It's great. But, my point being so besides praying for it, and I mean that seriously not just as a textbook answer. My point being praying about it is seeing what kind of different spaces you can inhabit. Like, I was just it was just curious to me and I'll mess up the streets. You know, I go down second street second half or second street where all the, you know, swanky restaurants are.
Speaker 2:And then you go over to 3rd or to 4th, or I don't think it's 4th. But you go you wherever the Green Acres chicken place is. So good.
Speaker 4:And I'm
Speaker 2:like, oh, it's all black on this avenue. It's just weird. Like, I'm like, oh, man. So I think it's just gonna take some crossing of lines, some going in spaces, that we're not used to going into. And so if it's like, if I can go, and I and I wanna be care I wanna be clear because I know, If you think it will just I can just drift into it, the structures have been too cemented for that to happen.
Speaker 2:It is going to take some level of, I'm not just gonna do what's comfortable to me. I'm going to try to think about it this way and whether it's where you work, where you eat, where you play, you know, can you just get to know the ladies at Green Acre Chicken or whatever or whatever it is?
Joel Brooks:You keep saying Green Acres. My mouth was already watering for their ochre after you said it the first time. There's also one in Irondale in case you're old.
Speaker 2:Oh, good. Tour guide. There you are. Good. Your ministry continues.
Joel Brooks:You're welcome. This is pretty connected, and and you may answer it largely with your last answer. But this this question is beyond books, what do I do if I have no friends or of a different race or opinion? I feel like I live locally and digitally in an echo chamber.
Speaker 2:I mean, the humility to write that, Psalm 2512 says, Lord leads the humble in what is right. So whoever wrote that, I commend you. Because I think it's that kind of honesty and that kind of inventory taking that is needed for intentionality. Because I think a lot of people just don't even realize I'm in this echo chamber, and this is so what do you do about that? You know, it's it's interesting on some level because the question is just how do I get friends?
Speaker 2:How do I get different friends? Is there a racial reconciliation app I can go on? Right? United We Pray should make one of those. That would be that would be something.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to I mean, besides praying for it, which I think is something you can do. I'm I'm genuinely trying to think of I mean, I think one Christian superpower the Lord has given us, Romans 12 says, is to be hospitable. What we think, how we how we live, how we spend, how we play. So I just wondered to this individual, who may be terribly introverted and this sounds like dying. But Christianity is kind of about dying to yourself.
Speaker 2:So here we are. If they can if they can go to someone So let me give you an example. Alright. So, yes, I live in Vestavia, but miss Sandy is the lady who who brings us our mail. She's our mail lady.
Speaker 2:She's wonderful, old, sweet, Can I make you dinner? And just talk to you. And not you don't even have to be like, I'm white, you're black, talk to me. Like, you can just be like, hey, miss Sandy. Here I am.
Speaker 2:I live in an echo chamber. All my friends are crazy. And, you know, and just invite some I mean, that is what I mean, when Christ is, I mean, this is where I will start preaching. And just tell me to make my answer shorter. I just need you you to
Joel Brooks:tell me. Not interested.
Speaker 2:But, this is where where Romans 12 is like Christ has welcomed us. And I want you in my reality. I welcome you into my reality. I will never stop welcoming you into my reality. And I just wonder if we could get over ourselves and just say, hey, man, I'm welcoming you into my reality.
Speaker 2:Can I, okay, can I give just one encouraging testimony?
Joel Brooks:Please.
Speaker 2:Mallie, I'm gonna say this publicly. Okay? So, you know, Mallie Taylor, faithful member of our church. Mallie has asked me questions about my hair. And she was like, you know, what what's it called?
Speaker 2:Like, what what's the style? Right? So I told her, I was like, you know, these are called these these are called this style. I said, like, you know, my my loctician called them lobster rolls. And so, you know, Malley goes and, I think that's that.
Speaker 2:So, Malley finds me a few weeks later and she said, Isaac, I was traveling through the airport. I walked up to this guy and I said, I like your lobster rolls. And and I even kind of died on the inside. I was like, you said what? My point being, you know, we may not all be as extrovert as Malley.
Speaker 2:And I don't think I think too many Christians put an equal sign between extroversion and godliness. Mali is very godly. But can you welcome someone into your reality? Whoever that I mean, whoever that may be. And yeah.
Speaker 2:And and go from there.
Joel Brooks:Are you gonna leave us hanging on how he responded?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't really I mean, he wasn't he like, thanks. He was very impressed. Oh, no. He said, hello, Mallory.
Joel Brooks:I did not see you there.
Speaker 2:What a pleasure. And I was too as your pastor and friend.
Joel Brooks:There are so many good questions, and I am sorry to everyone else whose questions we are not going to bring up. But we want to get you out of here in a timely manner. Isaac, thank you, brother. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. It's a joy.
Joel Brooks:I'd love to pray for Isaac. And then, if you guys after I pray, join me in thanking the Lord for Isaac. And if you would like to talk with him further, just meet him out front. Let's pray.
Speaker 4:Our
Joel Brooks:father, giver of all good gifts, I thank you for the gift of this evening and to be here with a dear brother in the faith. And I pray that you would pour out in your kindness and your mercy, joy upon joy, to Isaac, to Megan, to their kids. I pray that the law of the Lord would be a delight to them. I pray that they would talk about it when they sit and when they rise and when they walk out the door. I pray that the words of their mouths and the meditations of their hearts will be pleasing in your sight.
Joel Brooks:That you would lead them into holiness, that you would lead them into deeper hospitality, that you would use them mightily for your namesake here in this city into the ends of the earth. God, we thank you for a church like that in this city. We thank you for our brothers and sisters there. And we look to you, the author and the perfecter of our faith. And we ask you to move the mountain.
Joel Brooks:And we and we ask you to move the mountain of racial strife and injustice here in this city and in this world. We trust you. We're grateful to know that one day you will make every single wrong thing right. One day we will be gathered before your throne from every tribe, tongue, language, and nation confessing together. You join me in thanking Isaac for being here.
Joel Brooks:Thank you guys for coming. Be dismissed.
