Why Plant Churches?
Download MP3And so I'd like to begin with a word of prayer. So if we could pray together. God, I thank you for this family. And I thank you that we can say that because of the blood of Jesus. Not because we have common interests and we like the same things, but we are family because of you.
Jeffrey Heine:You've knit us together. You're growing us together. You're growing us in number as well, and we are thankful for that. So, God, we wanna spend this time thinking about you, thinking about what you have done in our community as a household of faith, and what you will do in the future. God, help us to imagine and to stretch our imaginations because that's what you do.
Jeffrey Heine:You do things that are beyond our imaginations. And so we ask that you would shape us by your spirit, that you would lead us to truth and away from error, that you would lead us to humility and away from pride, that you would lead us towards family. So we ask that you would bless this time and that you would be present with us by your spirit. We pray these things in the name of Christ, our Lord and our King. Amen.
Jeffrey Heine:So if the aim of these 1st Wednesdays is to get together as a family and to hear about different topics, and to ask questions about those things, this this month, our topic is, Why plant churches? One Sunday earlier this year, Joel Brooks came up and, shared with us that the elders had been discussing and had been praying about the possibility of bringing on a planting pastor that we would send out from Redeemer to establish a new congregation. That was about in January February. And in May, Joel Brooks introduced Joel and Mandy Busby, and announced that our church would be sending the Busbys to start a new congregation in West Homewood in, kind of, early 2017. And the leadership of Redeemer has been talking about planting since we were a little church plant meeting in a house.
Jeffrey Heine:One of the first conversations that I had with Joel Brooks about coming on staff at Redeemer in 2008, he was talking about, where he saw the Lord leading us as as this new church. And one of the things that he was passionate about then was that we would be a planting church. And that passion is shared by all of our elders, that we would be a planting church. And so through much prayer and study and discussion about church planting. I mean, that that has filled up countless hours within our leadership over the years.
Jeffrey Heine:And here we are, very excited that the Lord has created a step for us, for the first time, to plant out of our congregation. And so tonight is really a chance for us to talk about that, to talk about, what it means, to plant a church, why we feel so passionate about the work of church planting, and for each one of us to know how we can be involved. So that's that's where the discussion is tonight. The way that it will unfold, we will first hear from Joel Brooks. And he will kind of talk about what it means to be called to be a planter and what it means to be a planting church.
Jeffrey Heine:Then we're going to hear from Joel Busby, who's going to talk about a vision for church planting, a vision for Redeemer to be a church planting church. And then, I'll lead a time of Q and A with the Jolls after that. And, and then we're going to take some time as a church family to pray. So first up, Joel Brooks.
Joel Brooks:It's just awkward. All the way around. It's a little dark. There we go. Need a little more light up here in my old age.
Joel Brooks:Alright. So I'm going to talk about planting. Why do we plant churches? I wasn't a sit down, but it's gonna be impossible for me to sit down and talk about planting, because I'm excited about church planting. And, it would only take about 2 minutes in a chair before I got up and started yelling at everybody.
Joel Brooks:So I'll need to calm down. So why plant churches? It is what Jeff had asked me to talk on. And I thought I could probably just as easily ask all of you here, why did you become a member of Redeemer? You know, what what led you to this church here?
Joel Brooks:Why did you decide to make this a home for you? And if you were to list all of the reasons why you were drawn here, felt the Lord calling you here, I would say, okay. That's why you plant a church, because Redeemer was a church plant. We were a church plant 8 years ago, and now we're a congregation full of people who are being discipled, and following the Lord. And we hope to plant another congregation that's very similar to this and another and another.
Joel Brooks:We we church plant for the reasons that you were drawn here. It's a great way. I'd say the best way to make disciples. Now, Jeff, don't get mad. I was supposed to talk about the reason Lauren and I planted redeemer, but if you remember the church, you already know that.
Joel Brooks:I mean, you've probably been to our house. You've you've heard us talk through the reasons why, why we planted, how the Lord was leading us to to start redeemer. So I don't want to I don't want to rehash all of that. What I want to do is just talk through some particular points as to why I personally believe in church planting. Why is it something that I'm so passionate about, and I think we should be passionate about?
Joel Brooks:Like Jeff said, it's always been on our radar from the very beginning of our church. Some of our first elder meetings were about, okay, we want to be a church that plants church churches. A lot of our budget goes already towards church planting. I think, you know, we're part of the Sojourn Network, which is a church planting network. I think we give 60 to $70,000 a year, through that network that goes towards church planting.
Joel Brooks:Many of the missionaries who we support, we support their church planting endeavors. Bringing, Busbee on staff and then funding this new congregation is gonna be another way that we invest in this. So we've always been thinking, praying, and and putting our resources towards church planting, from the beginning, and this is something that we hope actually increases in the years ahead. So let me give you just some reasons why, and I've only got 10 or so minutes up here, so I've got to just do some bullet points as to why I believe in church planting. And the first is this, I think it's biblical.
Joel Brooks:I think that's the biblical model you see for making discipleships. So when Paul would go into city after city, and he would make converts, He didn't just leave them as converts. You see him staying in these cities, training elders, creating a a church, a care group, a a shepherding group here, and then he would move to another city. So that was his model. He wasn't just an evangelist and just leading people to the Lord and then going to the next city.
Joel Brooks:He was a planter. Because what you're doing when you actually leave a church there is you're leaving an engine. A discipleship engine that can keep making more and more disciples. If you just leave some scattered converts, you might not see that, but a church is just going to keep bringing in people to the Lord. And so you see that all throughout the book of acts, that church planting is the method of making disciples.
Joel Brooks:Second, I would think that or I believe that church planting is the best way to reach the unreached. It's the best way to reach those who are not involved in a church. So when when I started Redeemer, I did not have the luxury of just I didn't even have a pulpit, you know, of at our house, you know, the lectern that's there. I didn't have the luxury of just going up to that and knowing there would be a group of people. You know, we didn't have the luxury of like a Brook Hills or a Briarwood or a Shades Mountain in which if the pastor just shows up, there's people there.
Joel Brooks:There aren't people there unless you go and get them. So when you are a church plant, it fuels you to have to go and to bring people in or you can't exist. And so, Lauren and I, we would spend our time going to coffee shops. I would start soccer leagues just to meet other parents. She would go to playgrounds to meet other moms.
Joel Brooks:And we're constantly trying to find people who didn't know the Lord, who weren't involved in a church, to build a relationship with them, and then invite them to our house, which is where this church was starting. But if I just inherited a congregation, or just could walk up and know there would always be a crowd, there wouldn't be that same impulse, that same necessity to have to do that. Many of you here are here because somebody early on in that original nucleus of redeemer, one of those original maybe 15 or 20 people that were there, pursued you relentlessly. They didn't give up on you. They kept inviting you, and they kept inviting you, and kept inviting you.
Joel Brooks:They would have you over to their homes. They would be pulling you in. Many of you here were not part of a church. Some of you I know did not know the Lord, and it took that initial group of people to get out there and just start pulling people in. You cannot be lazy and be part of a church plant, because you just have to always be out pulling people in.
Joel Brooks:And I would say just even as a pastor, you don't like to talk about this, but there's a financial motive to actually having a church that's self sustainable. Like if if people didn't come to this thing that I was starting called Redeemer Community Church, I don't have an income. Like, I I can't feed my family. That's just a practical reason, but it's actually a real reason to where you have to reach out. A pastor has to start bringing people in, even for their own financial sustainability as a as a home and a family.
Joel Brooks:I know that sounds very unspiritual, and I but I could walk through actually I think that's a very biblical idea as well, and God has set it up that way. But that'll be for our next, next session we have. There's a couple of caveats I probably should say to church plants being the best way to reach the unchurched, and that is there needs to be at the start a commitment to not steal sheep. So if you're starting a church, or when we started Redeemer, if our goal was to just pillage other churches, then you could have grown pretty quickly, but it would all been transfer growth, And there's no real net gain to the kingdom. And so there needs to be with church planting as something that we are committed to, especially even in this this new congregation, that we're not gonna steal sheep.
Joel Brooks:If somebody is part of a gospel believing and preaching church, we we really want them to to stay there. But if they're unchurched, that's your target. And so you don't want to fill up the seats first with just transfer growth. And the and the dynamics of a church changes over the years, but especially for those 1st few years, you really want to be as aggressive as possible pulling in the unchurched. The second caveat is this, it can't be a transplant.
Joel Brooks:It needs to be a plant. There's a there's if a plant, a true plant, which is a small group of people going and and starting a new work reaches the unchurched. If there is a large group, or what we will call a transplant, let's say several hundred people going and plopping in a new area, you lose some of your incentive to go and reach. Then you know the incentive of, well, unless I bring people in, I'm just gonna show up and have an empty room. Or unless I bring people in, I'm not gonna be financially stable as a church.
Joel Brooks:Like, you have to have that incentive of just even a empty room almost to I've got to go out and make a church, and the small group of people that are with me, we have to go out and bring the unchurched people in. We need to find them where they're at, and whatever coffee shops, or whatever, you know, the team taught, and Forest Park, or wherever they are, but meet them and bring them in. Alright. So new churches are the best way to reach the unreached. They're also an amazing way to unleash the giftings in God's people.
Joel Brooks:Church planting releases giftings in a way that is simply incredible. So well, I'll I'll just put some faces on this. You know we have incredible elders here at Redeemer. I mean we just have some amazing, godly men who are really just rocks, pillars of this church. They're humble.
Joel Brooks:They love the Lord. They serve like crazy. They're just kind of the the pillars of this church. This won't embarrass them, but these men would have gone unnoticed in an established church. They would have been unnoticed, undeveloped.
Joel Brooks:But simply because of necessity when you're starting a new work, you've got to find somebody and got to say, Lord, grow this person fast. Unleash your giftings in them fast. And so when we started Redeemer, I remember I got 3 guys together. I was like, guys don't flatter yourselves. I'm not calling you elders.
Joel Brooks:Alright? You're gonna be, provincial elders, I think. I can't remember what title I used for them. You're temporary. We're it's you're kind of a let's see how this goes, eldership.
Joel Brooks:But you're gonna commit to this for a year because basically if this church fails, I don't want to fail alone. I want you guys with me and you begin just praying for, okay, use these men, grow these men, And can I just say like within a year, the giftings that were unleashed in these guys, the shepherding abilities that were unleashed in these guys was just astronomical? And it's because there was a need, so God raised them up to meet the need. You see that happen over and over again in a church plant. Okay.
Joel Brooks:I used to lead worship some at Redeemer. I mean, I used to sometimes I'd have to get my guitar out. I would sing. And then finally, okay. We got some other people to do that.
Joel Brooks:Thankfully, Jess just took that over. But then I had to play drums for the longest time. You talk about awkward is like when you when you get up from the kit, and then you come up here to preach. It's it's it's terrible. Alright?
Joel Brooks:Nobody's gonna listen to a drummer, but I I I had to. There there was nobody else. There was a need but but because there was a need, all some people saw that need, and they didn't want to hear me play guitar or play drums. And so they're like, I'll take care of that. And so all of a sudden you start seeing all these musicians coming in to take care of that need that's there.
Joel Brooks:You need to develop a children's ministry. Well, all of a sudden God raises up all these giftings with people who can do children's ministry. So the need or that vacuum that's there, all of a sudden God unleashes giftings and people to rise up and to fill those roles, in a way that if you go into a older established church that seems has everything met, those giftings might lie dormant. So you really do need to have that need for the giftings to be unleashed. I would say that, just need in general, which is what a church plant brings, is we need all of these things.
Joel Brooks:Need drives spiritual gifting, and there's still a whole lot of needs at Redeemer that we're hoping continues to drive this this growth in spiritual gifting. Alright. Let me give number 4, or might number 3. I don't know. Whoever's taking notes, tell me later.
Joel Brooks:Churches that plant churches, let me just talk about that. Instead of just church planting, but churches that plant churches also have the same qualities. That's one of the other reasons I'm so committed to church planting is not just for what God is going to unleash in a church plant, but what God unleashes in the church that starts planting churches. So when a church starts planting churches, you also see this incredible unleashing of leadership and of giftings. So in Acts chapter 10, when the Holy Spirit said, Set aside for me Paul and Barnabas, and they were released from their congregation, do you think that church was excited about that at first?
Joel Brooks:They're like, We're losing Paul. We're losing Barnabas. Like these are like the pillars of our church. And they're leaving us to plant other churches. But the moment they left Antioch just explodes.
Joel Brooks:It's like, okay. Now that there's a vacuum in this church we raise up more people. We unleash more gifts, and the more and more you start sending people out to do new works and to plant new congregations the more and more God begins doing a new work in this place, so that this place doesn't become stagnant. Let me tell you what, I am scared to death of pastoring a church at 20 years from now has just circled its wagons and just tries to play it safe and just tries to keep people from bleeding out? We're not gonna be that.
Joel Brooks:We're gonna be a people who just we're gonna be a church that keeps sending people out, sending people up out, keep creating a vacuum that has to be filled with new leadership, new people who are serving, new people who are teaching. And I think that will do the that's the best way to, to make disciples of everybody here in Birmingham, which is our goal. Churches that plant churches also demonstrate to the world that the church is more than an institution, that we would probably be better understood as a movement. Not just an institution that circles its wagons, but we are part of a movement. So do you have any idea how many of my friends, unsaved friends, when I tell them what we're doing, their jaws drop?
Joel Brooks:Like but I mean, your church is really successful. Right? It's it's kind of grown and you've you've got a lot of people. It's like, yes. And so you hired a church planter to come in while you left and went on sabbatical.
Joel Brooks:You brought in another guy to take over the pulpit to try to build connections with people so that he would then be sent out and take some of your congregation with them, with him, and you would also be giving money and resources towards that? I'm like, yes. Absolutely. Like, that's that doesn't fit anywhere on the radar, because human institutions don't work like that. But then we start telling them, it's because we want to make disciples.
Joel Brooks:We're about the kingdom of God, not about just building this place up. And I hope to do that again and again and again. I mean, my own mom thinks I'm crazy for what we're doing. She's like, Joel, you can't leave for that long. You know, just They're like mom, this isn't about me.
Joel Brooks:This isn't about me. And so I think the world takes notice. I think other churches take notice When you are very unselfish, and you are trying to plant, and you're trying to send out your best, even when it's gonna cost you. And make no mistake, planting a church, planting multiple churches is going to cost our church a lot. And and I would be lying to you if I said I didn't have some fears about that.
Joel Brooks:But God's worth the risk, and we're not gonna be a church that plays it safe. And so we are going to be a church that just takes that risk and just gets out there and gets out there. Church planting for the pastor is the incredible sanctifier, if we wanna get real personal here. Because it reminds me that the church isn't about me and my personality, but we're about something so much bigger, and I need to consistently be letting go and sending out. Otherwise, I'm just gonna think of, oh, look at what I've built.
Joel Brooks:Oh, look at all the people I brought in. It's like, it is just not about me. It's an incredible sanctifier. And is it hard to see some people go? Is it hard to see some resources go and tighten the belt in those things?
Joel Brooks:Yes, it is, but it's worth it. I mean, something Jeff and I were were talking about earlier is, he said you notice in Paul's letters how he's always saying, say hello to this person. Say hello to this person. He's reaching out to all these old churches, these people who he's really become connected with, that he had to say goodbye to. Like, he had he had to say goodbye to these people, but it was worth it because he was establishing congregations all over the place.
Joel Brooks:Is there pain involved? Yes. Sacrifice? Absolutely. Is the Lord worth it?
Joel Brooks:Absolutely. And so I'm excited about what we are doing moving forward. I gotta end. I went 1 or 2 minutes long. Sorry.
Joel Brooks:I could talk a lot longer. So Busby, where's Busby? Come on up here. Give Busby a big hand. Big round of
Speaker 3:applause.
Speaker 4:So has anybody here ever had to speak at an event? Ever? Ever? Okay. And have you ever had the experience of speaking at an event and the guy who speaks before you did such a good job that you felt like you could just pray and dismiss?
Speaker 4:That's what we're about to do, so if you guys will just kidding. No, honestly y'all thank you so much, for just the privilege it's been already to be a part of this team at Redeemer, to be a covenant member of this church family, to Joel and Lauren just for, really just having the vision for everything he just described which leads to me being right here. It's just an honor for me to be involved here at Redeemer and it's a special honor for me to be standing here and I like tonight as Redeemer's planting pastor. On so many levels to get to work and serve among people who are dear friends of mine and to get a to be a part of really, what I believe is a really special vision, for our city, so thank you. The question of the night is why plant churches?
Speaker 4:And I really want to answer that from my perspective really in 3 ways. And if you know anything about me, as the passion runs high, the clarity at which I'm trying to communicate begins to run low. So this is gonna be a little more of a passionate rant than some kind of slick prepared like sales pitch, okay? So I really wanted to share from my heart just really three ways that I have personally begun to think through this why plant churches. So there's there's 3 things I want to share with you.
Speaker 4:It gets confusing because the first thing is kind of 2 things and then there's a second and third thing, okay? So here's what the three things are. The first thing I want to share with you is kind of 2 scenes from my life, okay. The second thing I want to share with you is a text of scripture, okay. And the third thing I want to share with you is really a dream and really to kind of challenge your imagination a little bit.
Speaker 4:So so here's the first thing, the first thing is 2 distinct scenes from my life, I've shared 1 with Redeemer before, I'll share it again, so 2 scenes. First scene, I'm in my office in San Antonio, Texas. I'm doing youth ministry at the time. I'm listening to a podcast from a college
Speaker 3:ministry in Birmingham, Alabama. A college ministry that I was a
Speaker 4:part of called sermons while I'm in ministry because I'm pouring a lot out for people and I want something to be filling filling me up. So, UCF podcast was that for me. I hear this, I see the podcast kind of thing refreshed and it's it's titled, Joel's resignation. So I listen to that and I start hearing about Joel leaving UCF. I explore and hear a little bit more about that and Joel is leaving UCF to plant a church in Birmingham.
Speaker 4:To plant a church that reaches, that that really is about the welfare of the city of Birmingham. That's a gospel vision for for this city. Okay. I I was from Birmingham. I grew up in Birmingham.
Speaker 4:So, he's talking about a gospel movement in my place, in Birmingham. And then you got to think, well why Birmingham? Isn't Birmingham one of the most church places in the world? It is actually. But here's what's really interesting and I'm finding out that this is more and more true all the time.
Speaker 4:I meet so many people around Birmingham who aren't really churched. They might be affiliated with the church. Like, I talked to somebody just recently around around my neighborhood who said, Yeah, we go to and they mentioned where they went and then they gave a quick caveat. They said, Well, I mean, I think we went there once 15 years ago but you know, that's our that's my church. See, there's a very unique phenomenon in Birmingham, Alabama where people wanna be affiliated with churches, though they might not actually be church.
Speaker 4:So there's a lot of gospel need in a city like Birmingham. Flannery O'Connor, the famous writer called called or referred to the American South as the Christ haunted South. She said, the South is not Christ centered, but it's certainly Christ haunted. Meaning, there's kind of a semblance of Christianity kind of in the air, but the gospel moment, and I've shared this before, at that moment, I'm sitting there in my office in Texas. I have no idea how the coming months are gonna unfold.
Speaker 4:But a prayer just kind of came up in my heart and the prayer went like this, Lord, if I could ever be a part of that, if I could ever be a part of that, please, I would love to be a part of that. And and and, obviously, that church that that was dreamt about, here it is. It's you. It happened and here I am, it's me. It happened.
Speaker 4:Scene 1. Fast forward to scene number 2. This was a few weeks ago here at Redeemer. It was I I don't remember exactly how many Sundays ago this was, it all runs together. But it's when we had Taco Mama afterward, okay?
Speaker 4:And I'm sitting here and and I and I come to my to my work here, you know, I get here early and I start getting to serve with so many gifted people who are use who are who are using their gifts to honor the Lord in this place by doing things like directing people to to parking spaces, and setting up children's ministry, and putting paper towel, you know, things in the in the bathrooms. And and I'm I'm interacting with these these people who are serving this congregation. I go upstairs to my office and I'm getting to sit around and say good morning to literally some of my best friends in the world, that I get to work with every day. We come down here and we're in the gathered worship of God's people here at Redeemer with worship leaders who have so thoughtfully and prayerfully worked with the preacher to choose these songs that would sing of the glory of Jesus in such for ways. And and and we're singing.
Speaker 4:I mean, we're a church that really knows how to sing. Right? We're singing. I mean, I mean, Joel Brooks was telling me recently, he can't really sing anymore because of his voice, because he just screams when he sings here at Redeemer. I mean, we're singing songs worshiping God.
Speaker 4:We're hearing God's word preach to us. We're being refreshed in the power of the gospel. My 4 year old son, Henry, is sitting next to me and he's he's singing these songs. He's 4, he's looking around, he's seeing God's people worship. He closes his eyes and he raises his hands to worship our God.
Speaker 4:I mean, this is happening before my eyes. I look over at my wife and it's similar thing. We're being fed into truths of the gospel. After really, what's been a really kind of a hard personal season for Andy and I the last 2 or 3 years, I mean this is happening before my eyes. I mean, we we we end church and, we end our worship and we eat Taco Mama together.
Speaker 4:That was awesome, right? I pick up my son, Henry, and he's telling me about the Bible lesson he learned and he really kinda got it, like it was, I think it was exactly right that he had learned. Friends are are caring for each other in community. This is all happening. Okay.
Speaker 4:There's I don't remember if it's the same Sunday but there was a Sunday somewhat recently where we shared in holy communion together. I'm standing right here as I'm handing the bread and the cup to people. I'm saying the body of Christ broken for you, the blood of Christ shed for you. One of the greatest gifts of pastoral ministry is doing that when you know some of the back stories in a congregation like this. It's a great gift, this is all happening.
Speaker 4:And as all this is happening, I have 2 very distinct thoughts that pop in my head and here's the first one, Let's stay here. It's an age old instinct, right? One of the most impactful sermons I ever heard in my time at University Christian Fellowship was preached by Joel Brooks on Jesus and His disciples at the Mount of Transfiguration. And they said, let's stay here. Let's build tents and stay here.
Speaker 3:So that
Speaker 4:was the first thought. Here's my second thought. What if the Lord could do this again? What if he could do it again? What if he could do all those things that Joel just shared, that church planting does?
Speaker 4:What if he would do it again in a different part of our city to unleash new sets of giftedness? What if he could do it again? Okay, so that's 2 scenes which leads me to one text, okay. Ephesians chapter 3. This is a passage of scripture that's really been important to me as I've begun thinking through some of these these church planting ideas.
Speaker 4:And and I'm just gonna I'm gonna summarize what happens in the passage I want to read for you this one text of scriptures from Ephesians chapter 3. Ephesians has become one of my favorite books of the Bible. And what's amazing in the book of Ephesians is that Paul talks about this great cosmic victory that the that the Lord Jesus has won. He talks about how that gets applied to people personally, that people who were dead in their trespasses are now being made alive together, that this is by grace, not by any works that we can do. He goes on to say, and you know how it's true that this is happening?
Speaker 4:People from all different sorts of backgrounds and groups are gathered together into 1 family, dividing walls of hostility have been broken down. And then what Paul essentially says is, that there's only one thing left. The only thing left to do is for the announcement of this victory. The proclamation that this victory has happened to go forth. That's all that's left, is for that to be announced somehow to what Paul will call in Ephesians, the rulers and the authorities.
Speaker 4:Okay. That's all that's left and listen to the way that Paul says that happens, okay? This is from Ephesians chapter 3. Paul says this, of this gospel, I was made minister according to the gift of God's grace which was given me by the working of his power to me. Though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ.
Speaker 4:And here's where it really hits. And to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things. Listen to this. So that through the church, through the church, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. Paul's saying, okay, so the only thing left to do is for this announcement of great of Christ's great victory to go forth.
Speaker 4:That's all that's left to do. Well, Paul okay, so how's that announcement of Jesus' great victory, how does that happen? Paul says, Look around. Literally, look around. Like right now, look around.
Speaker 4:Like, eat to each other. That's how. Through the church. So you think you've just come to church, but what Paul thinks is that you are actually participating in something much greater and much grander. The glory of Jesus is being made manifest in a unique and particular way when people gather together in churches.
Speaker 4:So the question is, why plant churches for that? The only reason you plant churches is for the glory of Jesus, to be made manifest in a new and fresh way. That's the only reason, which is just another way of saying the things that Joel said. That that that is the why you do it. You don't do it because it's cool, you don't do it because you needed a job, it's too hard for any of that.
Speaker 4:You do it because you want to see the glory of Jesus be made manifest in a unique and powerful way. So the 2 scenes, that's the text. Here's the third thing, a dream. I want to kind of challenge your imagination a bit. Just just imagine for a minute, okay?
Speaker 4:Imagine for a minute a group of people gathered together in a different part of our city. Imagine a group of people gathered together in a different part of our city who are hearing the good news of Jesus being preached from scripture every week. Imagine that. Imagine a group, a congregation gathered together in another part of the city who have kids that are being ministered to by volunteers who are giving of themselves week after week after week to see the next generation trained up. Imagine a congregation where a couple people have decided that they actually want to go and serve the Lord in some different part of the world.
Speaker 4:And imagine a congregation of people who then invest to send those people to a place to serve Jesus there. Imagine a church, a congregation where there's local partnerships that have been fought for and labored over and led, and connected to where there's healthy local partnerships to serve the poor in that part of town, that provide tutors for inner city kids perhaps, that do all those sorts of things in the place in which God has placed them. Imagine a congregation of people that is led by a group of elders that have been newly unleashed who get together monthly in some room somewhere and begin to pray by name for everyone within their care. That happens here. Monthly.
Speaker 4:You're prayed for. These men who are elders, you can ask them, What's going on within your sort of shepherding roles? And they will tell you names of people who are going through difficult things and you get prayed for. Imagine a congregation in another part of town doing that. Imagine a congregation in another part of town that people are being trained and equipped to grow into maturity into Christ.
Speaker 4:To be equipped and grown and discipled. Imagine all of this happening in another part of town and little home groups kinda sprinkled all around it where people are sharing their lives together, where they're depending upon one another to get through what can really sometimes be pretty hard. That's called life. Day after day after day, working to support one another, to reach their neighborhoods, for the cause of Jesus. Just imagine that.
Speaker 4:Now, imagine that, but then imagine more than one of those congregations. Imagine a whole family of redeemer churches all around our city that work together in partnership with one another, that are independent in their own way, according to their the gifts that God has raised up in that place, that's independent and and have some flexibility according to their geographical place and the needs of that place. Who have the ability to do ministry in the ways that which God's called them in unique ways but who all united, interrelated and interconnected to one another. Who can share resources back and forth with one another, Who can train other church planters together. Who can A whole family of churches that can become a part of the renewal of our city.
Speaker 4:I mean, imagine that. I mean, imagine that. Imagine that. And imagine your role in that Because this is something that redeemer is doing and I wanna be really clear about that. A lot of people have come up to me and they mean well, and they say, Hey, so you're the guy planning the church, right?
Speaker 4:And just because I'm kind of persnickety, I'm like, No, not me. Redeemer's planting a church of which I'm going to be a part. But this is something that Redeemer is doing and we're all doing it together. Now some of us were praying the Lord will call to be sent. But all of us are senders.
Speaker 4:Right? All of us are are to pray and to and to join together in this mission for the sake of the gospel. That that's what we're really talking about here, is for the Lord to raise up a new and fresh congregation. This this one sort of in the western part of Homewood that I'll have a role in, is really just the continuation of a very long story that goes all the way back to when Joel Busby was listening to a podcast 8 years ago. As my grandfather would say, look how far we've come to get back where we started from.
Speaker 4:This is a continuation of a very long story of God sending this congregation out together on mission. And this church plant will be a piece of another story of God sending out people from our congregation to make an impact for our city. So why plant churches? Because, because We have some question and answers, Tom, so we're gonna have together. So if you guys have Well, I think I think Jeff's got a couple questions for us and and we'll go from there.
Jeffrey Heine:All right. So, I'm going to ask a couple. I've got more than a couple. That's if you don't do your part. But I've got a couple of questions that we'll lead off with, and then whatever you guys have, we'll do that, and then we'll take some time to pray.
Jeffrey Heine:So we good? You set? There's coffee back there. There's water back there, if you need anything. Okay?
Jeffrey Heine:Bathrooms are downstairs. There's only 2, so form a queue. All right. So first up, a question to the Joles. How did the elders decide on West Homewood for the first plant?
Jeffrey Heine:Brooks, you want to take that one?
Joel Brooks:Sure. Some of it was we we were seeing where a lot of our newer growth was coming from. And, also, we had already had in our mind Busby was on our radar, and that's exactly where Busby lives. And so it's kind of a combination of those couple of things. And it's not that we're asking, like, you know, if, hey, if you live in West Homewood, you're going to that church.
Joel Brooks:In some ways, we're just saying, like, okay, there's, there's a lot of this new growth coming here. If a lot of this new growth can start being a part of this new congregation as well, that will help us grow in a healthy way. And I think grow this church in a healthy way as well. So it was a combination of a couple of factors there. Just that's where we were seeing a lot of the the new growth coming in, and it's similar to Avondale.
Joel Brooks:It's it's the, the area that we've targeted is, is a very similar area. We wanted to make sure that there was the capability where right where the church was planted, there could be significant mercy ministry, and I think that's just gonna be, a key location there.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And and just the idea that this that that location is kind of at the crossroads a lot of interesting different places. There's a lot of international students that live along Green Springs, there's a lot of there's a heavy Hispanic community that lives along Valley Avenue. So we felt like we could be in a place that would give us the chance to minister to a just kind of a wide cross section of people. That's the thing I would add to that.
Jeffrey Heine:Alright. So, Busby, there there are a lot of churches in Birmingham that do multiple locations and all that. How is this similar or dissimilar to some of those things? And, you know, is this like just church franchising that we're doing here or how is it different from that?
Speaker 4:So, we're gonna pipe in Joel Brooks, not on video but on hologram. Like Tupac. No so, so kind of what Jeff's getting at there is, you might have heard, you might you may have heard of churches in Birmingham that pursue what's called a multi site model, which means the church kind of forever is intended to be connected sort of in a whole way, like like financially, it's it's it's just another location of a greater church body. And and so what we're really trying to do is somewhat of a hybrid model in the sense that it's not like redeemers just giving money saying, go, you know, go good luck. But instead what we're trying to do is we're trying to see redeemer plant an independent congregation, a congregation that will one day be independent both in its kind of eldership as well as its ability to fund itself, but that's always really connected just on a relational level, on a gospel partnership level, on mission opportunity levels.
Speaker 4:So, there's a clear plan here for there eventually, you know, for us to sort of be on our own, if that's a good way to say it. But also just with some deep connections. I mean, like I was saying earlier, these are some of my best friends in the world so I'm always gonna be in partnership, but there will be some some, distinction there as well.
Jeffrey Heine:So Brooks, I'm doing Brooks and Busby. Is that helpful for you?
Speaker 4:It's helpful for me.
Jeffrey Heine:So, we we've kind of touched on resources and everything, and, just what it takes to to do something like this. How how are we able to do this kind of a work, with resources?
Joel Brooks:That's a great question. It is mostly going to come just from the giving of our congregation. We are, Mountain Brook Community Church is going to help us out some. The Sojour Network is gonna help us out some. But when you look at the grand scheme of things, that's a very small amount compared to what our church is going to have to invest in this.
Joel Brooks:So it has to be something that we have a missional calling to, both in whatever people we decide to, to send and also with the financial gifting towards that. So it's
Speaker 4:a big sacrifice.
Joel Brooks:It's it's it's you know, make no mistake. It's a sacrifice, for us, and once again, it's worth the risk. I mean, it's it's absolutely is worth the risk.
Jeffrey Heine:So for a person that's hearing kind of these things tonight, maybe the announcements ever since May, who maybe is is prayerfully considering if if this is something that they are supposed to be a part of, what would be the first step for them? Buzz?
Speaker 4:You could email me. Okay. Really email either Joel or I. I think I think it'd be be really helpful if if you've been a redeemer a long time and you're really invested in this community, I think it'd be helpful for you to kind of process some of this together with with Joel Brooks. You could also email me and I'll put you on an email list that gives you some updates as to what we think will be kind of coming in the fall.
Speaker 4:But joel.busby rccbaringham.orgorjoel@rccbaringham. So He
Jeffrey Heine:was your first.
Speaker 3:He was
Speaker 4:your first. The first Joel.
Joel Brooks:And really, just the, if the Lord is calling you to be part of a pioneering work we we still have pioneering work to do here, for sure. I mean, we've, like we said, we have a budding youth ministry, all 4 of our youth that that will be exploding though. There is a lot of pioneering work here to do, but if, if you feel like God has called you maybe towards a particular community and to be part of that pioneering effort, then I would listen very carefully to that call. Things I would not do is if I just want to be part of a smaller church. Well, you know what?
Joel Brooks:Probably 2, 3 years from now, that might be an issue because I would imagine this church is going to grow fairly rapidly. So that's not a, that's not a reason to leave or, or Busbee is not going to want anybody who's just disgruntled with a church. And they just like, well, I'm disgruntled with this church. So I want to head out. That's not who you start a church with.
Joel Brooks:We're really you want people who capture the vision for this, and they feel a a strong calling towards it. And and we've been talking a lot about the size, and really that's in the Lord's hand. We have the time, and we have the the not the luxury in a sense, but since we are funding this for for a few years, do we we can be really intentional? And so we don't want to lose a lot of the benefits of a plant by overpopulating it, but we also don't want to have too little. And it's just this fine little balance of of what we want to send, who do we want to send, so this church can really develop its own unique identity instead of simply being a transplant of people, over there.
Speaker 3:I'd like
Jeffrey Heine:to give a, yeah, a couple of moments for questions out here.
Speaker 3:Especially in the past couple weeks, we've talked about growth, and how's that to help manage that. And, I think one of the things that comes to mind is that the church plant might be able to help with that. What are your what are your thoughts?
Joel Brooks:The the question is, does a church plant help growth, like, help manage growth? One of the things I do in the Sojourn Network is I go around and talk to other churches about church planting, and one thing you will see is churches that plant churches grow faster. They don't slow in their growth. Churches that circle their wagons, and you're like, we really need to just focus on us and nobody else, bleed out. Because you it just becomes a stagnant church that, becomes more of a institution than part of a mission.
Joel Brooks:And so I don't know if, if this will not grow that growth is a problem. I don't know. I'm sure it might have a lot of people go. We might have some people stay, but it's 2 separate issues.
Speaker 5:Obviously, at the beginning, there's gonna be, like, a last word and financially, relationally. But, Wendy, you mentioned, like, you would love to see a deep connection between the 2 churches. Once the church is independent, redeemer and this you've made all of that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a great question and there's a lot about that that I'm not sure how it will play out and I'll just tell you that, But, you know, you ask what's my dream of that? You know, honestly, I think a lot of the connection will really be felt more on a leadership level, honestly. I mean, so for example, I think Brooks and I's relationship, he and I will feel a lot of connection. Like I'm going to want Joel really involved for a lot of reasons that maybe the 2 congregations it will kind of be lost on them, does that make sense? But I anticipate things like I'm, I mean I'm, I'll just can I just say something honestly?
Speaker 4:I've never done this before. Uh-oh. Ever. So so there's there's a lot of things that I I I want to learn, you know, so I will email him all the time or call him all the time asking for help. You know, when I start thinking of discipleship and teaching ideas for home groups and Bible studies, literally if I had no connection to Redeemer, the first person I would call is Jeff Heiner.
Speaker 4:He knows more about that stuff than anybody else I know. You know, when I'm thinking of systems and like in like in like excel spreadsheets, Joshua P. Housen, like like in other words, I'm gonna lean a lot on sort of these friends of mine who I think are gifted and called guys, okay? And then there's other things like I I can't preach every Sunday, so I'm going to want some, you know, relief on that level and I expect these guys to fill those things. Does that make sense?
Speaker 4:But then I think bigger things, I mean we dream about things like imagine a 9 lessons and carols that is a city wide thing. You know, imagine a a joint, effort to send a crew of people to Haiti. So there's a lot of those sorts of things. You know, Dwight has done such really good work on like the the mission level that I'm actually hoping, I don't know if Dwight's in the room, there he is, I'm hoping to ride his coattails, you know. So there's just a lot of good work that I'm hoping to just get to take advantage of quite frankly because I'm gonna need the help, right?
Speaker 4:But I think there's lots of dreams, I mean, you know, there's talks of of other ways that that Redeemer is going to be partnering in in the area of church planning both with Sojourn and even locally, so I I see one day like a church planner training that happens for all, you know, among all the family of churches, so I just think there's lots of things like that, but I really think it's going to start on kind of a leadership level connection.
Speaker 6:Brandon? You're referred to as the planting pastor. So does that mean that you will continue to be planting pastor even for, this church or is planting pastor a position at Redeemer Avondale That's we'll continue to have.
Joel Brooks:So Busby will be the lead pastor of the new congregation there. And our hope is that we can continue to have planting pastors in the future. Now, financially, that's gonna be hard until we have this congregation to a good financial point and our congregation a good financial point because the finances, once you plant, will waver drastically depending on maybe who goes, or it you just have to let that kind of level out a bit. But we hope that this is our first plant and that we could keep having planting pastors. But we don't know what's gonna be the timetable for that.
Joel Brooks:That that is a good question. It's shifted in just about every possible way. One of the things that's been interesting is we joined the Soja Network because we knew we needed help church planting, and they're a church planting network. I mean, it's what they do. And so as we're going through this whole process, and we're getting to know one another, and we become part of the Sojourn network, one of the first things that they did as a network is they identified me as the head of their church planting, which I thought, that is just comical.
Joel Brooks:We go to you for help, and then you just turn around, and like, and now they're, you know, what they call strategists. I go around and I meet with different churches, talking to them about how do you start churches like Redeemer. And I'm like, you realize I did this once. You know? Some of the things that I've learned is, it's like birth.
Joel Brooks:What I've heard.
Speaker 4:So what does it mean for me?
Joel Brooks:Yes. It is a painful, necessary process for there to be new life, in there to continue to be new life. But Busby and I are fully aware it's going to be painful for, for our congregation. It's going to stretch us at times as we're sharing a budget over the next few years. And you know, Busby is like, hey, we really want a children's minister.
Joel Brooks:I'm like, hey, we did without, you know, a hired professional, like full time staff for 8 years. And we're like, let's get on our knees and let's pray about this together as 2 congregations where we can give our resources. So it's, it's, it's going to be a stretching sanctifying process for both of us. We're going into it with eyes wide open though. And so our elders, some things I've learned is that, I thought at first church planting solved growth.
Joel Brooks:Like if you became a church planting church, you would always remain a small church, and then I just saw, actually, that is the exact opposite in all the churches that we looked at, that church planting churches keep planting because there's something alive where they're at. And that's just how the Lord uses that church and makes disciples. I think one of the things that Busby's talked about a little bit is, I wonder if I could say this, that multi site models don't work, I'll just be blunt about that, for the long term. So we're committed to kind of a quasi multi site for 2 to 3 years and then autonomy. But the what you want multisite for is that you keep a forever relationship.
Joel Brooks:You're like, oh, this will just forever lock us together. Like but then the not giving another congregation autonomy, like, not allowing the spirit to do the unique work that he desires to do there becomes a very stifling thing for that congregation. And you also get a very personality driven church that all stems from the pastor of that mother sending church. You know, the the mother church is just birthing all these others. So one of my things I'm doing in the Sojourn network is I'm trying to talk to all other churches about getting out of the multi site model and creating something similar to this.
Joel Brooks:I could go on and on about what I've learned a lot a lot.
Jeffrey Heine:So we're gonna need to put a pin in the questions. Joelandjoele.busby@rccbirmingham.org. And also just, after we're done here, I mean, feel free to to ask them and then, and also elders. I mean, to to ask them some of your questions too. Definitely want to keep the communication going, but, I've got one more question and that is, how can we be praying for you?
Jeffrey Heine:How can we be praying for this plant, this new congregation? We're gonna take some time in in a few moments to circle up and to be praying, and to give us some direction to that. This coming Sunday and then after that, every other Sunday, after this coming Sunday, we will be gathering for prayer at 3:30, concerning the the church plant. And so, if you wanna join in on that on Sundays at 3:30 before the afternoon service, gonna be here kind of in the conference room area. But, but for tonight, how how can we be praying?
Speaker 4:Absolutely. So there's 3 distinct areas that right now I'm asking for people to pray about, there's probably a 1,000 but there's 3 that I'm gonna share. So so the first thing is just for that early crew of leaders, you know, so I I don't want this to be like like I need help, right? And so for that early crew of leaders that really formed that DNA of this new congregation, you know when Joel Brooks looks back at who those early folks were, I mean they've become just essential to the life of this church. And so I'm beginning to pray that the Lord would gather that early group of leaders that can really be, sort of that foundation and that that help for for me.
Speaker 4:So so leadership, a second thing is I'll just I'll just use the phrase or the the word place. I I really would love to see the Lord show us what it means to be in that particular area. I mentioned earlier, it's kind of at the crossroads of a lot of different sorts of communities. So I'm just really beginning to pray for wisdom about what outreach looks like to say internationals in that area, what it would look like to have, you know in that area there's there's kind of young and old, there's there's rich and there's poor, there's there's it's just a very interesting area, so we want you know when I go to the Publix on Green Springs, that's my Publix, okay. You go in Publix and you just see the diversity of people that live in that area and we want this congregation to somehow reflect the place, So please pray for us in that.
Speaker 4:And then the third thing is just the word I would use is Busbee's and that's my family. My wife Mandy is right here on the 2nd row. Mandy do you want to wave? So, anyway, so, Mandy and and I have a little boy Henry who's 4, I have a little boy Leland who will be 2 later in the month, and you know when you really start thinking about church planting and and church planters, you you start to see that when you just kind of observe kind of around, it's kind of a dangerous calling. It's a spiritual mindful in a lot of ways, like the amount of pastors and young church planners that have moral failures that that have to be removed because of patterns of pride and and manipulation and things like that, I mean it's pretty, it's pretty sobering.
Speaker 4:I have a dear dear friend of mine who who is a is a pastor in the PCA out in the Midwest, and and one of the jobs that he has is he he's he kinda looks after some of the young church planters in his denomination, and and he just tells me, Busby, you would not even believe how many we are having to sort of remove on a monthly basis. And I just will be vulnerable with you to tell you that I just felt a lot of those sorts of, the pressures of that. I mean Brooks and I were talking I think yesterday or the day before, it it kinda there's just temptations that surface that you wouldn't have known to be tempted by, like the idea of showing faith baptism to a certain kind of person, I feel that. The temptation to try to manipulate situations to kind of, it's just a real thing, the pride and the insecurity, it kind of surfaces in you. I mean, I'm a man the same as any of the men in this room whose life needs to be rooted deeply in kind of my identity in Christ.
Speaker 4:And so I want to ask you guys to pray for us as a family, for my boys, for Mandy and just for our family, it's it's hard work, and it takes a kind of energy, a kind of maniacal energy to get things going, but it also takes a constant letting go of control at every front and at every opportunity and and those are just hard things man and I don't, I just would seek your prayer for our family. Did you wanna add to anything that big? Good. Okay.
Jeffrey Heine:Alright. So leadership, place, and the Busbys. I would like to say a couple of things. And because, I'm I have the privilege of talking to all of our, like, redeemer family right now, it probably goes without saying, but, pray. Time to to be before the lord and to voice these things in these small groups throughout the room.
Jeffrey Heine:And, and then we'll close in prayer and and and kinda wrap up the time. So if if your group is done, just continue praying, until we wrap up together. Okay? So let's circle up and pray.
Speaker 7:Lord God, it seems as though whenever the good news of Jesus, whenever that gospel spreads in a city, in a place, in our world that are accompanied by great tribulation and great hostility. But Lord, we know that in such times, you are all the comfort that we need. When we think upon what you said to Paul when he was in Corinth face facing much opposition, but also seeing the gospel bearing much fruit, he said to him, do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent for I am with you and no one will attack you to harm you. For I have many in this city who are my people. God, we pray pray for redeemer and also this church plant that you would protect us, that you would protect our leaders, that you would guard us in the power of your spirit to go forth with this gospel that turns the world upside down.
Speaker 7:God, we pray that for Avondale, for West Homewood, for indeed this entire city and far beyond. We pray for our leaders that you would drive your gospel deep in them, their love for you, heavenly father, above all else. We're grateful, God, that you have promised that you will be with us no matter what. And we pray, God, for those who will be reached by this church plant and many other church plants in years to come. You have many people in this city, and we rejoice God that we get to be a part of seeing that harvest of souls in this place and beyond.
Speaker 7:Lord, do it in our midst for your glory alone. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen.
